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Night and the City We sit down with six of the city’s leading nightlife entrepreneurs to discuss the lingering effects of the dot-com bust, the real difference between SF and other cities and the ever-present battle between house and hip-hop. |
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posted on October 27, 2006 |
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ROUNDTABLE
.... Let’s jump right in. Give us three words to describe SF nightlife. Greg Lindgren: Needs more people. Hugo Gamboa: It’s definitely eclectic. Martel Toler: It’s spread out. Sunwoo Hwang: Voracious. Untapped. Unique. What do you mean by untapped and needing more people? Todd Palmerton: We have only 750,000 people. It’s a metropolis in the fact that we’ve got Schwab and the Gap and a lot of corporations here. But those people don’t go out on weeknights. There’s a lot of money in San Francisco, but people don’t go out and spend it as much. Out of the entire population, let’s say you have 5,000 to 10,000 that go out consistently, and then out of that, 1,000 that we see all the time. But they can’t go out every night of the week, and there’s so few of them and so many places to go. In L.A., Sunday, Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday are the great nights for locals to go out—the weekend is when the people in the outlying areas come in. Whereas here, Thursday, Friday, Saturday are the big nights to go out. So that’s how the demographic works here. You only have so many people to work with, whereas in NYC you don’t even need a great concept. You could open up anything and people will come in. Hugo: And L.A., New York and Miami have the entertainment business driving a lot of the nightlife, especially on the weekdays when you have movie premieres. You get the fashion house that wants to show off some new line, an agency that just signed a bunch of new actors or models. We don’t have that here. I think what drives the scene here is the actual diversity of the city itself. If you look around this table right now, you can see it. We all come from different ethnicities, and I think that’s what really drives SF nightlife. Sunwoo: The other part is that this is a very expensive city to live in. Unless you have a high-paying job, it’s very difficult to live here, never mind to go out. Chicago, for instance, has a huge segment of people fresh out of college and on their first job—that segment seems to be lacking in SF. Those young people are the people who love music. They love to go out. You can build all the venues you want, but it’s about jobs. You saw it with the dot-com bust. You saw a huge exodus of people. Nightlife went straight on its face. Gina Milano: During the dot-com era there was a much greater cross section of people in SF, so many more people out every night. When the bust happened, I had my first little bar up on Haight Street. Business must have plummeted 30 percent. Seriously. I opened Bambuddha shortly after that, and it was the first lounge concept in the city. People were ambivalent about it, but we opened and we were packed every single night for a year. I think it’s worked well, having a restaurant that becomes a nightclub later on. For the most part, the big nightclub was dead after dot-com. And I definitely think that we have not rebounded from that. Sunwoo hit the nail on the head. There’s not this youthful energy. It sounds like the after-effects of the dot-com bust are part of what makes SF nightlife unique right now. Sunwoo: Because people here only go out one or two nights a week, when they do go out, they’re very picky. That’s the hard part. You can’t try to appeal to everyone because it’s so diverse. I personally believe it’s a matter of staying focused. Martel: We [Release SF] never owned our own clubs, but we did create events and parties. Every night was a different location and different part of the city, whether it was live music on Sunday nights or jazz on Wednesday nights. You want to create something that people remember and want to come back to. People here will go out, but it has to be the right thing to get them out. Hugo: During the dot-com years, people were working really hard and playing really hard, seven nights a week. Now you can’t play hard because you don’t have the money, but you’ve still got to work hard. I think people are afraid to go out and spend money like they used to because the rug got pulled out from under them. Now it’s all about putting in 10 to 12 hours so you can retire early and buy your place in Mill Valley. Sunwoo: In spite of that, I’m a firm believer that if you have a place that’s fun, people will go. They’ll find the money in their budget. The burden’s on us to be focused and creative. The “1984” party at the Cat Club does really well. The EndUp’s been here for 33 years. Why? Because they’ve been focused and consistent about what they deliver. Let’s talk about music. What do people want to hear and dance to these days? Todd: The mash-up is big. I love the fact that somebody takes Pink Floyd and blends that into Christina Aguilera with 50 Cent and then back into Aerosmith and you’re like, “What just happened?” You can’t believe all those beats were mashed together to make a new song. Back in the ’90s, SF was an epicenter for raves and it was all house music. Then in the last five or six years, it’s been mostly hip-hop. Martel: At our parties, we always incorporated all different kinds of music. We’d have a house room, an R&B room, a ’70s room. We’d have something for everybody. Gina: I forbade hip-hop to be played at my club at first. I think it’s the most base-level beat, it’s just a one-two beat and it’s idiot-proof. But the crowd kept asking for it, and when the DJ would play one hip-hop song, they’d go nuts. So I had to change my format, because they wanted hip-hop. Personally, I’m totally into house music; I’m a househead forever. So is the rest of the world. You go to Europe and there are four dance music stations on the radio in any city. Greg: One of our venues is a small DJ bar [Rosewood]. Our first party was a Wednesday night hip-hop party. I did have reservations back in 2000 about having hip-hop night; house music was more prevalent. But I ended up loving it. It was just such a cool, integrated crowd, which you don’t always see in SF. The difference between hip-hop and house is that hip-hop is on the radio. One is familiar, and one is underground. Now we’ve been hip-hop for five years, and I want to try something else. I want to go back to house, and I want to do indie rock. Sunwoo: House versus hip-hop is like Democrat versus Republican. But SF’s actually unique because hip-hop has not completely overtaken the city. You still have a strong contingent of house music and other types of music. Whereas L.A. has been completely taken over by hip-hop. I think San Franciscans are music connoisseurs. I love classical. I love Latin acoustic. I love house. I love underground hip-hop. How about the design of the space? What do you do design-wise to draw people in? Gina: When designing Bambuddha, I wanted to create a space that appealed to all demographics, a space that was comfortable, enchanting and made people to feel transported to a different locale. We did that by incorporating different elements such as waterfalls, the pool, fireplaces inside and out. We planted lots of bamboo and imported our furniture from Thailand and the Philippines. I wanted it to feel like a Thai resort. And we were the first place in town to do beds, to give it that inviting, sexy feel. Sunwoo: Philippe and I, along with our designer [Stephane Dupoux], have spent a lot of time crafting a design that embodies contemporary, organic, warm, welcoming, provocative. We wanted to take the pretense out of the design, for instance, having no separate VIP areas. And we wanted it to showcase the historical elements of the building, to make the design uniquely San Franciscan. Hugo: Greg was the first one I can remember who came in and did something unique, first with 15 Romolo and then Rosewood: His places all look like something out of Europe. He took the design seriously. That really motivated me. Greg: Jon [Gasparini] and I like to keep the design clean. We blend contemporary architectural elements within the classic backbone of older buildings around town. We incorporate subtle improvements to the bar such as recessed cutouts for the bartender’s mise en place or a new way to showcase wine bottles. And we try to visually warm the space by using natural materials, lots of wood and stone. Our guests comment on the design a lot. So what’s the craziest thing you’ve seen? Greg: The look on my future wife’s face as she saw me bouncing a jerk down Romolo Alley. Gina: Naked in the swimming pool. Sunwoo: Watching George Karpaty, the owner of Ruby Skye, literally yank “celebrity” DJ Samantha Ronson off the decks at the jam-packed 2006 White Party. George was being as diplomatic and sensitive as possible. He says to Samantha, “I’m really sorry about this, but the crowd just isn’t feeling you tonight, and my job is to make sure they are happy and having a great time. You’ll get paid your full rate, but I need to have DJ Bali start spinning right now.” She stormed off stage. God bless people like George who know their priorities. Todd: One time I was brand-new at a place—I won’t mention the name—and I was just roaming through the bowels of the building. I noticed that two doors to a private room, that are usually open, were closed. So I go over and peer in and there’s this guy who’s in the business too and all I can see is his upper body. His head is bobbing back and forth like … what’s the word I’m looking for? Ecstasy. He’s in there getting a blowjob. His wife is upstairs. Martel: Of course, you’re going to see sex. I’ve seen sex on speakers, behind speakers … bathrooms are too easy… cars in parking lots. Sunwoo: DJ booths. Hugo: Yeah, DJ booths for sure. Gina: We had a huge rock star getting his photo taken and doing a GQ interview at Bambuddha. And they schedule it for eight in the morning. So I call my bar backs, whom I’ve known forever, and tell them, “So and So is going to be at the bar at 8 a.m. for this interview. You have to go open the doors and give him whatever he wants.” So I’m out late that night and I have all these missed calls from my bar backs in the morning. I show up and the rock star is there with a bottle of Jack on the bar. I say to my bar backs, “Why were you blowing my phone up?” And they’re like, “Because he wanted an eight-ball. He’s high as hell.” I’m like, “What? It’s eight in the morning! You guys facilitated?” They’re like, “Yeah, well, we had to get it for him. But we called you first.” Speaking of drugs, are people doing them? And what do they like to drink in this town? Gina: SF loves vodka and Fernet. We mostly sell vodka, and it’s the liquor in most of our specialty cocktails. Drugs? Some people are still doing coke—so ’80s. Sunwoo: Anything from a bottle of Fiji to a caipiroska to Sancerre. I’ve even seen shots of Fernet with Red Bull. Yes, there are drugs, just as there are in any city. But the difference is that other cities seem to thrive on the drama or appeal of a “drug scene,” whereas in SF, drugs aren’t the epicenter of the nightlife experience. Greg: This is definitely a vodka town, but I ask any vodka lover to try substituting gin in their favorite cocktail. You’d be surprised how the flavor complexity improves the drink. This is also a Fernet Branca town, a tequila town, and increasingly a whiskey town. As for drugs, whenever we open a spot, I’ve noticed the first people in the door are more friendly to drugs. It’s weird. When we find out about it, we nip it in the bud, but it’s just something that I’ve noticed. Apparently cocaine has made a resurgence among kids who were born during the Nancy Reagan “Just Say No” era. How does the city help or hurt you as a nightlife entrepreneur? What can it do to make your jobs easier? Sunwoo: The city’s looking to reposition itself as a cosmopolitan mecca: the number one tourist destination in the world. You have investments on the hotel side, the residential high-rises that are going into downtown. You have the formation of an entertainment commission. I think it’s becoming much more friendly to nightlife. SF has always wanted to be that big, cosmopolitan city yet maintain its small-town feel, and you can’t really do both. If you want to be a big city, you have to deal with noise and congestion. You have to deal with a lot of people going out every single night. Gina: I do a lot for the Tenderloin neighborhood; I host charitable events because I see what’s going on in the Tenderloin. It’s a disgusting nightmare. I had a woman with a needle in my parking space yesterday. You call the police. There was no response whatsoever; there is no help from the cops. You need to pay your own security to patrol your own neighborhood to make certain that your guests don’t have their cars broken into. I take on that expense. The whole homeless issue, period—I don’t see how San Francisco intends on positioning itself as a great tourist destination when we have homeless people in the streets who are constantly harassing the tourists. Secondly, there’s the minimum wage. A city that raises its minimum wage to $9.14 an hour [beginning January 1] is not being supportive of small business. If I went to Daly City and opened up the same place, I’d be paying $6.15 an hour instead of $9.14. My bartenders should be getting a service wage; they make $700 apiece in tips on a Saturday night! And yet I’m paying them $8.82 an hour now. Thirdly, we’ve turned away a ton of convention business this past two years with the hotel strikes. Now that being said, I am personally attempting to put my two cents in with government to make that change. The only reason a lot of people are able to open nightclubs right now in San Francisco and get entertainment licenses is specifically because of the entertainment commission. The entertainment commission has changed SF licensing. Before them, it was impossible. Hugo: I think there are definite hurdles here. My group’s doing some stuff in Vegas, probably the entertainment capital of the world. We’re not paying $9 minimum wage. Nevada is much more friendly to our type of business, and that’s why Vegas is the way it is. If SF truly wants to become a major nightlife player, we have to make certain changes, and the number one change is that we need to be able to operate until four or five in the morning. In any other large city in America, you can go and experience nightlife for 12 hours, not just for four. Right now in SF, you get home from work at six or seven. You might go to the gym. Then you rush out to get some dinner, and then you rush out to the starter place where you’re going to have cocktails. And then the place you end up. You can get so much more done in a night if you don’t have to rush around with a deadline of 2 a.m. You have two more hours in the night. You can do a later dinner. We’re voted the number one tourist destination; we get people from all over the world. When I tell them, “Hey, it’s two o’clock, you’ve got to go,” they’re like, “What are you talking about?” They’re shocked. Todd: Now that the economy’s coming back, I think there’s a bit of a rebirth going on. When Hugo came in with One8One three years ago, that kind of started things again. I think we’re at the point now that you can do 200- to 600-person spots and make your money back and have a good time, and people will go there and support it. Martel: Bottom line, the city needs venues that people are going to go to and fill up during the whole week, not just on the weekends. Greg: To me I think it’s just really just an ebb and flow of the business cycle from neighborhood to neighborhood. The Marina has a pretty consistent, vibrant restaurant and bar culture. When areas that haven’t seen a lot of activity start getting something going, they then become the new trend. San Franciscans love to rediscover their city. When I say bridge and tunnel, you say ____. Gina: That’s what you get when you’re seven by seven miles and have two bridges attached to your town. I think most places would be out of business if it weren’t for those bridges. Sunwoo: It’s not like we live in Eugene, OR. This is a world-class city. Whether it’s bridge/tunnel, Marina/Mission, gay/straight or house/hip-hop, I say the more, the merrier. Greg: Shhh! Where are you going to print this? Todd: Clubs have a life cycle: The first six to eight months is when you get the locals coming in. After that, it’s all about the buzz that trickles into the outlying areas. So when people come into the city on that Thursday, Friday, and Saturday is when they’re hitting your club. Like Hugo’s spot, One8One, is doing so well because he’s got thousands of people coming in every weekend. Same with Ruby Skye or any big spot. That’s the hope for anyone opening up a space: Make it popular enough that it’s great for the locals on the weekdays. Then on the weekends you want to be packed with anybody who’s heard about the space. What’s your biggest hope for the next year regarding SF nightlife? Greg: My biggest hope revolves around the craft of bartending. There’s been a great new bar that opened up recently called Bourbon & Branch. There’s a lot of great bars and restaurants that have been contributing a lot to SF’s reputation in the country and in the world. These are places like Absinthe, Enrico’s, the Redwood Room. I think we have a strong contingent of bartenders who are doing incredible work that stands out nationally, in the same vein as our chefs. Hugo: I’d like to see more restaurants that evolve from just being a place you go to eat dinner to a place that you want to hang out at for the rest of the evening. After dinner it turns into a lounge or a club. Martel: I’m just waiting for that 20-year cycle to kick back in. I was here in the ’80s and it was out of control. I think it can be the same again. There are new people turning 21 every day. So there’s no reason why it shouldn’t be the happening place it was. Todd: I don’t think it will happen, but I’d like to see some 4 a.m. licenses. It will increase hotel business, restaurant business, theater business, everything. And I don’t want people taking themselves too seriously. I think that’s what’s great about this city. Clubs that take themselves too seriously just fall by the wayside. At the end of the day everyone’s out to have a good time. You need to keep that in mind.
.... Let’s jump right in. Give us three words to describe SF nightlife. Greg Lindgren: Needs more people. Hugo... |
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